Chad graduated from the of the University of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign with a Bachelor of Science degree in Kinesiology in 1991. He is a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (CSCS) with the National Strength and Conditioning Association (NSCA). Most recently, Chad became the first (and at the time, only) American to graduate with a Diploma in Sports Nutrition with the International Olympic Committee (IOC). Chad has owned a personal training business in Los Angeles since 1993. In 2003, he opened Push Private Fitness, a 2400 sq.ft. personal training only gym. He currently competes in Masters Raw Powerlifting competitions. Chad lives in Studio City, CA and is married to Oscar-winning Supervising Sound Editor Karen Baker Landers.

Note from Matt: This interview was recorded from a Skype call and then transcribed by me. Some sections have been edited for an easier read.

Matt: Chad, you’ve been in the industry for over 20 years now. How has the fitness industry changed from when you first started to today?

Chad: I was just thinking about this last night actually. I just reached the 12 year anniversary of having my own gym, Push Private Fitness, and in April it will be the 22nd anniversary of working with my first client here in LA back in 93. I’ve been in the industry since the mid 80’s when I started college, so I’ve seen pretty much everything this industry has to offer. When I first started step aerobics was the big thing. It was huge! Along with that every gym had exercise equipment set up so you could do a circuit of weightlifting. Back then there really wasn’t personal training, not in the 80’s anyway. The profession really started up in the 90’s. So, when I first got to LA it step aerobics was the big thing and Billy Blank was starting to get really popular through teaching Tae Bo. His first studio was across the street from me and then he just blew up. From there I watched Curves get really popular all the way to Crossfit. You even see stuff like Barre classes and different “new” takes on fitness. The point is that you’ll always have something like this to deal with. I’ve never been one to jump on a bandwagon and chase new money. I just do what I know works, which can be kind of boring so you better bring something else to the table to hold clients attention. There’s never going to be any new gimmicks that are going to make you stand out, but despite that I’ve been working with some of the same clients for 20 years now. They know that they are going to come to the gym, get a good workout, and have a good time. Each session will be fun and interesting. There is a whole lot outside of the workout itself that you need to do to be successful at fitness, if that makes any sense.

Matt: You mentioned that it was in the 90s that personal trainers started to rise as a profession. How has the public perception of personal trainers changed since then?

Chad: I think that it’s definitely gotten better. Body by Jake was the first well known trainer in the 80’s, but the profession was only used by rich people who would have someone come to their house. No one thought that they could make a living being a personal trainer. The industry was the Wild West when I started. Certifications were pretty crappy (not that they’ve gotten much better) and there just wasn’t a lot of credibility. Basically as long as you had a shtick or looked good you would be able to get clients (laughing). The good thing is that nowadays you see trainers following evidenced-based styles of training and with a lot more college degrees. I worked for my degree in kinesiology and was lucky enough to be in the first wave of personal trainers that actually had an education in the area as the profession started to rise. Taking a step back, when I went to school I was originally a biology degree and had no clue what kinesiology was. The reason I switched was because I could combine my interests of sports, working out, and science, but I still had no clue that I could have a career in personal training with this degree. I was lucky enough to be in the right place and the right time, but now college students go into kinesiology with the specific goal of being a personal trainer. It’s completely different than it was when I started.

Matt: This next question is something that’s really important to me, not only because we build software for personal trainers, but because several individuals that I’m close to and care about have chosen this profession as a career. I think a lot about the position that personal trainers have in the fitness market and to me it’s getting stronger and stronger. Evidenced-based practices and improved education have helped out the profession a ton. To me one of the things that’s holding back personal trainers is the public perception that people still have of their service. The average consumer doesn’t view having a trainer as a necessity even though it’s been proven that working with a quality personal trainer can have huge benefits to your health and well-being. What do you think will be the biggest key to pushing personal trainers to the position in the market that they probably should be?

Chad: This may be a roundabout way to answer this, but I think that one of the problems that we have right now is that personal trainers are starting to act outside of their scope of practice. They are starting to do more physical therapy or things that they don’t really have true expertise in rather than referring it out to a professional. In the eagerness to look like you’re the man/women that knows everything you run the risk of damaging and maybe hurting someone. If that happens the client will obviously think that the trainer was full of crap. So, I think that we, as trainers, don’t take ourselves seriously sometimes for the niche that we provide. We think that we have to go outside of our space to give our career credibility. Trainers need to realize that we are most likely the #1 person that when hired can significantly impact a client’s health, fitness, and thus their happiness. It’s not going to be their spouse, boss, kids, or anyone else. It’s going to be us. The reason that my clients still work with me after 10, 15, or 20 years is that I focus on empowering them through fitness. It’s not that they’ve gotten fitter each week over 20 years, they’ve stayed because the work they do with me carries over to the rest of their life. I’m that stable rock that my clients don’t have to worry about. No matter what’s going on in their life they can come in to the gym and I’m going to be there for them to help them get through it. I think my clients appreciate this. Trainers should focus on delivering empowerment instead of looking for the latest thing or adding more certifications to their business card. Clients don’t necessarily need that. They don’t even really care if you have a 6-pack or not. That’s not what it’s about. They need someone who’s in their corner and who is going to do the right thing for their health. If aesthetic benefits come out of the process then great! But that’s not what it’s all about even though that may be the main reasoning for a client when initially hiring a trainer.

Matt: I think that’s a great way to put it. Trainers should focus on what you do better than any other profession.

I found in another blog post that you pass along these three important principles to young PT’s to ensure delivering good service to their clients. Could you go through these and explain why these principles are important to you when mentoring personal trainers?

Principle #1 – The clients well-being comes first.

Chad: So what I’ve seen over the years, and part of the reason I left certain places I worked out to go out on my own, is that it very rarely was about the clients well-being. Trainers and gyms were usually focused on hitting certain numbers for that week or upcoming month. Maybe there’s a scenario where a trainer should have told their client to stay home and get healthy, but instead the trainer is focused on getting them into the gym, forcing a workout on them, and getting an extra 80-90 bucks. I always thought that this was incredibly short-sighted, the fact that you would put a few extra dollars ahead of someone’s well-being. So I always stay focused on putting my clients well-being first and nine times out of ten my clients will call or text me (rightly or wrongly) to ask if they should see a certain type of doctor or therapist. They trust me. They trust me that I’m going to give them the best opinion that I can. Sometimes I have to tell them to not come in to the gym for a few weeks so they can go get taken care of and that develops trust. These people don’t want to lose my out of their life. Just doing the right thing has always seemed to work, but there’s still a ton of trainers who fail to see the long-term damage they could be doing to their client relationship.

I don’t like having to look for new clients all the time. I’d much rather have people stick with me for 10, 15, or 20 years. That’s a nice steady income (laughing),  but I also happen to really like the people I work with.

Principle #2 – Keep your ears open and your mouth shut.

Chad: This is especially true for trainers who are working with new clients. They tend to try to oversell themselves and talk talk talk talk talk. God forbid that the prospective client mentions a bad experience with another trainer because then they will bad mouth the other trainer and bash on them. My thought has always been that you need to just shut up and listen for a second. The prospect will lead you to exactly where they want to go and want from you, so just shut up and listen. You should reinforce that you understand their pain/problems and clearly explain why your services might benefit them. Far too many times young trainers, who often lack confidence in their skills, feel like they have to do this song and dance routine to get the person to sign up. In reality these young trainers are most likely making someone nervous who probably had to work up the courage just to come to the gym in the first place. For me being a good listener has always been beneficial, especially for sales.

Principle #3 – Be interested and interesting.

Chad:  This was something that my wife taught me. She’s won a few Academy Awards, deals with lots of high-powered directors, studio heads, and stuff like that. She’s had a great career and is at the top of her game. She lives by this rule and instilled it in me early on that you had to be interested in people, but that you also need to bring something to the table. The interested part goes back to being a good listener, like I said before, and the interesting part is that you need to have something else to talk about other than the Kreb cycle or glute activation or whatever (laughing). Most people don’t give a crap about any of that. So you need to be well read, you need to be up on current events, you need to have traveled the world a bit. You need to be an interesting citizen of the planet. Just have something to talk about. That doesn’t mean you have to go to certain conversation topics with clients. There will be clients who you find out through certain discussions that you have similar beliefs in politics, religion, or whatever. Then it’s ok, go ahead and discuss these things with them because you’ll develop a common bond this way. Maybe you’ll find out that they are polar opposites with you and that it was a good thing that you kept your mouth shut to let them do the talking. When this happens you have to steer the conversation to other topics. I tend to believe that someone who is well traveled and well read tends to make for an interesting person. That’s someone that I’d want to have a conversation with and that works both ways with your clients. At the end of the day, when you have a client for a long time the workouts don’t change that much. The muscles are still the same (laughing). So to keep that client for a long time there better be something to hold your clients interests and that’s you. What you bring to the table and what you have to offer as a human being.

Matt: It’s incredible that you’ve been able to retain clients for that long. I doubt that it’s something that young trainers think is even possible when first getting into the industry, you know? Trainers should focus on creating a relationship to work with clients for the long-term because recurring revenue is fantastic, but there’s also the opportunity for each potential client to become a long-term friend as well.

Chad: Absolutely. My short-term clients are the clients I’ve had for only seven years (laughing). Long-term we’re talking 15-20 years. It’s not necessarily that I go into a new client relationship thinking that they will stay longer than the first 10 sessions and I don’t do those first 10 sessions with an endgame in mind for them to purchase another package. I just try to give them the best that I’ve got for each of the first 10 sessions and I hope it clicks with them. If they don’t then that’s alright too. I hope they find what does click with them if they go somewhere else so they can be healthy and happy. If the clients are not enjoying themselves I don’t want them to stick around because we know it’s not something that will last for the long-term. Again, if it’s not me that’s cool. I’ll just offer them the best I have and it’s tended to work out so far. I have people who have completed 500 workouts and 1000+ workouts with me. It’s kind of crazy to think about.

Matt: In addition to the three principles what else do you focus on when you’re working with young personal trainers to help their career?

Chad: Oh man. I’m actually giving a talk at the NSCA SouthWest Conference next weekend in Northern California. I’ll mainly be talking about going from a personal trainer to a gym owner and successfully making the transition. It’s different when I first went into personal training. When I first started I don’t think there were a lot of trainers who thought of this as a career. Trainers were young and it was fun. They could hang out in a gym all day. Training was something they could do while waiting to figure out what they really wanted to do with their life. Now people take it much more seriously. Trainers go into the workforce with college degrees and experience. I think that young personal trainers need to think of this more as a business and treat it as such. Not so much the sales side of things, but think about building a company culture. Even if it’s a company of one. You mentioned that you interviewed Mark Fisher earlier who is a good friend of mine. We love similar books like “Delivering Happiness” by Tony Hsieh and “Good Business” by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi. Young trainers should be learning how to talk to people and how to interact when meeting someone for the first time. It’s not about working hard to have a six pack as a trainer because that’s not the reason why people will hire you. Like I mentioned before It has very little to do with that. I’ve seen plenty of trainers over the years who were confused as to why they didn’t have any clients when they themselves were in such good shape. It’s because they were a jerk and no one wanted to spend any time with them (laughing). Personal development and having business savvy is incredibly important. Sales tend to grow organically as you become a better listener and can find something in common to talk about with potential clients. So when I work with young trainers my focus is on personal development and then business development out of that.

Matt: While doing research for this interview I heard from one of your podcast guest appearances that you have a tattoo on your wrist that is a Michelangelo quote. Could you tell me a bit about that and why it’s important to you?

Chad: It’s Italian and says Ancora Imparo (laughing). Michelangelo was really old and while doing sketches one day he once wrote this phrase on the side of his sketchbook. It means “Still I am learning” because he didn’t like the way his sketch was turning out. I love that story because here’s one of the greatest artists that ever lived and at 87 years old he still thought that he could do better. If it’s good enough for Michelangelo then it’s good enough for me (laughing). I tattooed it on the inside of my right wrist just as a reminder not to become complacent and to try to be mindful of my best self. I think that a lot of us get caught up in life and just start to coast. We wonder why things aren’t going as well for us as when we are younger and hungrier. That necessity for personal development is a neverending thing. I’ve been doing this for 20+ years and I talk to Mark Fisher all the time and ask what I can do to be better. We’re so different in how we deliver the same message, but I’m not beyond thinking that I can’t learn something just because I’ve been doing this for a long time or because Mark’s younger than I am. I think no matter what you’re doing you should be trying to improve yourself.

Matt: So you’ve searched and found mentors of your own, in particular Martin Rooney and Mark Fisher. Could you tell us the #1 lesson you learned from each of these industry leaders?

Chad: The first time that I actually saw Martin was on a VHS tape (laughing). What intrigued me about Martin at that time was that here he was as a trainer leading professional athletes and fighters in workouts. He was working his ass off and during the rest periods he would drop all these knowledge bombs left and right. On top the knowledge bombs the guy was just passionate. There’s no BS with Martin. It’s not fake, it’s not a shtick. I’ve seen plenty of trainers over the years who’s energy and attitude is all BS. Martin is infectious and he means everything that he says. You can’t help but get motivated by him. So I made all my trainers take the Trainers For Warriors certification, not because we were going to do that style of training in our facility, so they could get exposed to what Martin has and in the hopes that it would turn their crank. From Martin my trainers could learn that what we do is important and it is valuable. You need to be driven and passionate about achieving it. So from Martin it wasn’t a particular method or exercise, it was the passion. For some trainers maybe they find out that it’s not personal training that really gets them going and that’s fine. Maybe they realize it’s something else, so go for it! You don’t have to be a trainer. Find what it is that you want to do every day and try to be better than the day before.

The first time I saw one of Mark Fisher’s videos with half-naked people all over the place I was just so impressed because there was a lot of craziness going on but every single thing he was saying about fitness and nutrition was spot on. I just thought it was amazing! We were kind of on each others radars because we had wrote articles for the PTDC back-to-back so I sent him a message to say hi. Mark knew exactly what his market was and went after it wholeheartedly. It was just 100% him. It was not fake. This is how he talks and how he is. I respected that. Mark is completely driven to reach as many people as he can and to do that in whatever way he can deliver a message that will reach those people. With Martin and Mark it’s just really about the people. I can’t emphasize this point enough with young trainers, but it really is about the client and finding a way to reach them. What Martin does with TFW and what Mark Fisher does are completely different in style, but exactly the same in purpose. They want to be a force for change in people’s lives. It’s the same thing that I do with Team Push. We’re trying to empower people to have the best lives that they can, to have the best jobs that they can, they best relationships, and so on. We do that through fitness because for a lot of people once they get that foundation and confidence from fitness they realize they can do so much more than before. They realize that they can take that next step with their job or a certain relationship. The pursuit of fitness, holding yourself accountable, and being consistent with this is something they can look at and be proud. That feeling naturally extends itself to other areas of their lives.

Matt: I see why you’ve been able to make it in this industry for so long (laughing).

Last question for you. What do you expect to change over the next few years with big box gyms, private gyms, and the personal training industry? What should personal trainers be aware of?

Chad: Well I think that big box gyms are definitely on the decline. Just having a big room of equipment that people don’t really know how to use doesn’t work. These gyms are just trying to squeeze every dollar that they can out of someone and hoping that their members don’t come to the gym that much while continuing to pay their access fee. That model has been dying a slow death for a while now, which means the other business models out there (private, semi-private, and group training) have room to grow. Whether it’s the way that Mark does it with group and semi-private training or the way I do it with private training really depends on where you live, people’s financial resources locally, and so on. I’ve been talking a lot to Mark because if I expand Push Fitness I think I’d have to incorporate some of what he does with semi-private, but it’s tough to do this. To replicate his model you have find good trainers to ensure the quality is there when working with multiple clients at once. If I could clone myself and have 20 of me then I’d know exactly what each coach is doing, but there’s no guarantees of finding other trainers that can deliver the quality I expect no matter how good your hiring practices are. It’s really hard to do. So, I do think there will be a middle ground where there will always be a need for private one-on-one training, which is certainly my preference, because there’s a certain bond and trust that you can get. When you do semi-private and/or group you lose a little bit of that, but the community aspect is so strong that it works for a lot of people. That’s why Mark Fisher is so successful with Snatched In Six Weeks because he’s able to create a community within that time frame. Each member of the community is there to support each other and be the backbone that the other person needs. It’s the same thing we’re focused on, but we just have a different way of doing it. The big box gyms are going to continue to decline for many reasons, but mainly because they focus on short-term numbers instead of building relationships.

Matt: Thank you so much Chad for giving me your time and sharing your story. If anyone is interested in following Chad and learning more I’d highly recommend clicking on the links below:

• Chad’s website

• Twitter @chadlanders

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